Pot, meet kettle.
Come on Yankee soldiers, mutiny!
This is how you radicalize soldiers
thats also why dictators/fascist keep thier military weak and incompetent. not paying them enough, barely sustaining them, defunding them.
Kinda reminds me of WWII when we had Japanese American soldiers and likely their families in camps with all of their assets seized.
awww. STOP VOLUNTEERING FOR THE MILITARY.
I’m poor and desperate. Whose hiring? System is working as intended.
So you fucking murder people?? Why join the fucking military if that is your solution, you’d do less harm in the world just stealing what you need. I’m poor and desperate, too, but I’d rather starve to death.
Are you? Starving to death?
The purpose of a system is what it does.
Unless it’s badly designed, in which case it does everything worse than intended.
Sounds like job security to me
If you think so then let me tell you about the history of planned obsolescence.
“volunteering”
I’m sorry? Did the draft begin?
It depends on what you mean. They don’t exactly draft Liberian diamond miners either. Poor uneducated Liberians do that because they have to.
Holy shit…
Did you just equate working in a mine for sustenance to committing war crimes for a placement in the middle class, lifetime benefits, free education, and the expectation of respect and special treatment for the rest of your life?
our US military is entirely voluntary, if you exclude the influence by capitalists and gov staff who direct communities to keep its people poor and desperate enough to think they can “win” by joining.
Is it really voluntary when you have no other recourse? When the circumstances of your life are so hopeless that is seems like the only option?
If your options are to murder innocent people or to die, then lie down and get comfortable. But I have a feeling that while you are waiting, other options will occur to you.
Work at a gas station or go murder brown people for way more money and paid education?
It’s a choice, a selfish one.
Look, I get what you’re saying, and “I was only following orders” is also a choice, and one that you should get rightfully judged for, but let’s not pretend like creating circumstances where people find themselves uneducated and without life prospects isn’t a big recruitment vector for the military.
Yeah no shit, the military gives you incentives to be a Nazi, you choosing those incentives knowing you’re doing Nazi shit still makes you a Nazi, regardless of how you end up if you don’t choose to be a Nazi.
What point are you making exactly? We don’t have to pretend like they had no other choice…
You can join the army or join the corps because you can’t make it here anymore.
And they’re not making it easier making it here.
Kind of like conscripting gang bangers and cartel members. Join us, and you’ll want for nothing. Terms and conditions apply.
“This is heartbreaking for me. I don’t know how I can mentally continue working 12+ hour days knowing that my dad is somewhere, possibly being treated like a criminal.”
My dude, they are already treating him like a criminal.
They’re treating the troops as expendable slaves, so what else is shocking.
Signing up to kill and die for a country that actively, openly hates you was certainly a choice.
“Having a family member in the military is not a free pass to violate our nation’s laws,” the DHS said.
I hope more people realize this and understand that by “serving” the state you are also protecting ICE.
If only we could get people to understand that the US military has been the global “ICE” for decades.
ICE is nothing more than Imperialism turned inward.
I’m old and jaded, but I hope these big dreams come true, comrade.
Me too, but I’ll keep trying.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit
What a great way to make your trained killers remember their oath to the Constitution to protect against its enemies, both foreign and domestic.
Is the implication that ICE and DHS is a domestic enemy? How does that square with the rest of the oath
I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
…meaning you’re not supposed to obey unlawful orders, which includes anything that violates the US Constitution or the Geneva Convention…
What are the unlawful orders though? That’s the part I’m not understanding…
If you think ICE and DHS haven’t violated the constitution multiple times over at this point, then you need to pay more attention…
I’m not american.
I’m trying to understand if americans think the military should have a coup or something. I’ve never understood the culture around the military in the States so I was a little surprised to hear this.
I’m not sure anyone is being super serious, and that it’s mostly hopefully or hyperbole. (That’s intended as a neutral statement).
If those orders are illegal you have a sworn duty to disobey them.
I understand there will be a lengthy court martial and perhaps many will not win. But if we ever get to the point of holding people accountable for all that is going on (and they better hope it’s us and not some outside forces), they will be held as co-conspirators.
I feel like I am missing something, what orders? I know I mentioned ICE in my reply but it was in a general sense, like ICE is part of the US.
Orders to arrest and detain US citizens without due process if they aren’t white enough.
The US military is ordered to do this?
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents take an official oath of office to support and defend the U.S. Constitution, just like all other federal civil service and law enforcement personnel.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents take an official oath of office to support and defend the U.S. Constitution, just like all other federal civil service and law enforcement personnel.
You were just talking about ICE.
Okay Grandpa, time to get you to bed.
Orders to fire on shipwreck survivors for a recent real world example.
It squares away in the UCMJ. Generic ‘You’ used throughout, below this point:
You are supposed to have the balls/constitution/wherewithal/spine to disobey an order you believe or know to be illegal, despite the harsh automatic penalties that will presume you guilty until innocent for doing so, as you accept those possible consequences as readily as you accept taking an artillery shell for your country.
You are to hold this inhuman (as in, literally against psychological norm) stance deeper than the other stances programmed (with full use of psychological norms) into you in the course of being shaped for military services during training.
Because you are a warrior and are expected to hold yourself to standards far above and beyond those of the common population that you are (on paper, says every military of everywhere really) sacrificing your service for, so they don’t have to.
Does it work?
Eh. Maybe if a standing military was full of the mythical Warrior Poets envisioned by the glories in the marching songs.
They pretty much universally never are, and usually never were except for brief periods fostered by singular individuals as driving forces.
And thus, here we are.
Given what Kegsbreath has been doing to reshape the US military under his toddler level understanding of what a “warrior” is, I wouldn’t expect much of the requisite spine to still be enlisted for service for long.
They exist still, and hopefully the ones that are already out, the ones still in, and their neighbors are doing some common sense mathematics, but that is simply not something that can be expected and accounted for, and historically when things get to that point, it’s a bad time for everyone regardless.
Thank you for the efforts to explain. I think I understand the point people are trying to make with respect to disobeying an order but I didn’t get the connection to the issue in the article or what I interpreted as the other reply suggesting (that the military should/would/could stop ICE/DHS).
I did recently watch a video essay on the Port Chicago disaster and what folks went through after refusing the dangerous work that only Black soldiers were expected to perform. That’s different from than unlawful I guess, and was during wartime (I have no idea if the US is perpetually at war now?) which was used to explain the harshness beyond just plain racism.
It squares because the Constitution is supposed to be the supreme law of the land. The people currently occupying these offices come and go.
I’m not american so I think you might need to explain like I’m 5 if you are willing.
The oath is to protect the country against enemies (domestic and foreign) and obey the president and the chain of command. I read that as the president and chain of command are identifying the enemies and the military is to carry out those orders.
I feel like I’m not understanding what everyone else is seeing. In what situation would individual soldiers decide that other government employees are the enemy unless they receive these orders? I guess I’m not expecting the current admin to say ICE and DHS are enemies?
I mean I don’t think this is a universally American belief, but my point is that they’re pledging their oath to the Constitution and the office of the presidency, but also swearing to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic. Basically the office is what you’re swearing an oath to, the person holding that office is only there temporarily and that person can make themselves an enemy of both the title they hold and the Constitution that rules over all (or is supposed to in a sane world).
Think of it like when you have a substitute teacher or temporary manager, you’re not going to hold them in as high of a regard as someone who’s permanently holding that title or role because they’re just the current placeholder who will be gone before long much like Trump.
And even if people in the military hold similar beliefs, they’re not necessarily protected if they act on it because as our current president shows on a daily basis, the law only has teeth if the people in power want it to, so while someone may think they’re acting within the bounds of the law, there’s nothing to stop a corrupt, criminal administration from throwing the book at them anyway.
“Yes, YOU are in the Sturmabteilung, Unteroffizier Krauze. But is your family? Think long and hard about that, Krauze.”
Yo, googled that because I didn’t recognize it and is Google okay???
A little quick to jump into the nazi roleplay there…
Unteroffizier Krauze (often spelled Krause) is not a single, real historical figure. Instead, it is a fictional character profile generated for our historical roleplay.The name combines common historical elements:Unteroffizier: A junior non-commissioned officer rank in the German military (equivalent to a Corporal or Sergeant).Krause/Krauze: One of the most common surnames in Germany.While there were real people with similar names—such as Karl Wilhelm Krause, who served as Adolf Hitler’s personal valet, or various real-life soldiers named Krause recorded in military archives—the specific “Unteroffizier Krauze” in the Sturmabteilung (SA) from our conversation is a purely fictional persona.
What the actual fuck?
Would you like me to explain it to you? I swear I can do it better than any AI if you just ask me.
Sure, thanks! I am sure you have figured out that I understand the general context just not the specific reference. 😅
You are right, I understand. Sorry if I sounded harsh.
Comments are getting over 100 upvotes regularly now. Lemmy is growing.
I will not give a fuck about these stories until I can reliably feel like they a) didn’t vote for this and b) wouldn’t vote for this yet again.
The consequences of my actions are suddenly facing me, and now I don’t wish for it to happen to me or my family anymore. But I still wish for it to happen to everybody else, so I’m still gonna vote for it. GoFundMe when?
Right? Yeah … 51%ish people voted for him, and if you didn’t vote at all, then you helped cause it. Not that I think Kamala wasn’t a lying piece of shit, but I’d rather have 4 years of stagnation than 4 years of what we’re getting.
TBH I think the Democrats have it in the bag next election if they provide someone remotely competent. The die hard Trumpies will always vote right, but I think a lot of people were on the fence will go left as a knee jerk reaction.
He did not get the majority of votes. He got the most votes. There is a difference and the former highlights one of the flaws in our electoral system.
I think the Democrats have it in the bag next election if they provide someone remotely competent.
I don’t. Because they have. Oh, not progressives that I want, but remotely competent? Yes.
Who owns the media? Why do republicans get passes and democrats don’t? It’s pretty damned pervasive propaganda on nearly every front.
Sure, dems could do better, but anyone they run gets relentless attacks at every level.
So that’s why I disagree with your statement. heh
Trump hates the troops
Trump hates.
Did you know his family name was originally Drumpf? I mean that’s not just a sound bite, that’s their original German name. Do you know what it means in German? It’s the sound that something hollow makes when you tap it.
Edit: “ein drumpf”.
Obama’s immigration policy, especially in his second term, prioritized the deportation of people with criminal records. Under Trump, only 29% of deported people had a criminal conviction. Most had no criminal record.
edit = cut and pasted from ‘factually’ site.
And Trump is paying billions more for ICE.
Also almost 3 times as many individuals kidnapped by ICE have died under Trump’s administration than all of Obama’s administration so far, the deaths are only going to increase.
29%
No way it’s that high. Unless something has drastically changed over the past six months, I think you’re off by an order of magnitude. Last I looked it was closer to 2.9%
It’s 29% if you take into account the administration lying about who’s a criminal.
(This is not a real statistic)
You are probably right. I used one source. Edited.
Owners get richer,
The more people they put in,
Concentration camps
Any reason you responded in haiku?
The real question is once you recognized the format why didn’t you follow suit
You son of a bitch
That would have been a good move
What was I thinking?
The last man on Earth sat alone in a room. They were a Redditor.
🙌🙏🙏🙌
Pissing off military service members is a bold move.
Really really hoping for a Sergei Eisenstein to suddenly become insanely relevant again
If they had a strong will they wouldn’t have joined an imperial army to begin with. I don’t think there’s much to worry about.
Right?! If this were any other country, we would’ve had multiple military coups forcefully removing the orange shitstain from office.
Just when you think America is scraping rock bottom ethics/morality/humanity, they surprise you by going even lower.
the gop/conservatives, and warhawks have never cared for cannon fodder that can be used to funnel money into defense contractors, and to the politicians pockets. its mostly performative politics.
The families of people who serve in the military should not be treated better than any other American family is, so this is not a new low, it’s just the same low as usual.
They should if you don’t want the people you personally trained to be killers to turn on you.
Did I say that they should?
Kinda yeah
Joshua Aviles says he is on a nine-month Middle East deployment and learned his father has been arrested
Another one of Orange Diaper Baby’s “thank you for your service” moments. The entire crew of the Lincoln must hate him. He’ll say they’ve all turned Communist and will insist the ship stay deployed forever.
The Trump Regime is making history rhyme. I hope that he and the rest of his ilk end up in a room, and never come out.
