Which is your preferred messaging app? I just want some insights about these two.
You may share other messaging apps too.
Matrix is open source and federated, end of the story.
Completely different use cases.
Matrix is shared interest groups.
Signal is for personal communication.
I’ve come to distrust Matrix, the metadata leaking is one thing but then combine that with the fact that .org is basically the default server and you almost have to federate with it, and they were started as an Amdocs project before spinning off into “the matrix foundation,” and Amdocs is Israeli, and while I don’t have PROOF they’re connected with Mossad I’d rather not chance it.
Plus, the apps all sucked last I used them, Element was the best and it was still buggy as all hell, and the Linux app is just an electron wrapper, and it was too hard to use for most of my “normal” friends (I agree, they should get good, but they do not get good, what should I do hold 'em at gunpoint and install Fedora, my options are limited). And the rooms had such a bad CP spam problem they stopped them from being publically searchable, you (now still?) have to know the room’s addr to join. Even still, with that CP problem, it becomes hard to reccomend family/friends to make an account. I don’t want to see that, I don’t want them to have to see that, and I don’t want them to think I want to see that and judge me because of spam in the RasPi room because I’m the guy that recommended the app, I don’t need that in my life.
Signal requiring phone numbers is also not my favorite, and the single point of failure is not the best either. Better than Matrix imo, but still. Also last I used it they still supported SMS and when a contact would delete Signal without deleting their account, the message would still try to deliver through Signal instead of defaulting back to SMS, so I’d have to switch my default to Messenger every time I wanted to talk to them and back to Signal when I was done. That was annoying.
Now happily using Delta Chat, easy onboarding for “normals,” low (no?) metadata leaks, webXDC seems cool, p2p video/audio calling, multi-relay support for resiliency, groups (but anyone can kick anyone, they’re meant for known contacts or family more than matrix-like rooms), no discoverability so nobody gets your acct by just having your phone number or etc (so my friend doesn’t have to worry about their abusive ex finding them on it like on IG or Snapchat), due to those last two things it doesn’t seem to have the same CP problem as Matrix rooms, channels are pretty neat, you can share location for increments between 30min and 24hr, bunch of cool stuff!
Isn’t Signal a CIA honeypot?
Ehhhh idk, afaik jury’s still out on that, but imo “could be.”
That’s partly why I use Delta Chat instead actually. Only partly, but it makes the list.
Even still, gun to my head, I think I’m picking Signal over Matrix as far as who I trust a little more. Not that I trust either entirely, and DC I trust more than both of those, but there’s always the possibility of some vulnerability if not a full backdoor. At least DC is FOSS and decentralized, I honestly doubt there’s a “backdoor,” but never know who has a 0-day.
The CIA financed Signal (I believe they stopped a few years ago), however that was never really secret. It also happened in simpler times, in the earlier days of internet and mobile phones. In general it’s quite plausible that the CIA just wanted a really secure comms system that people they wanted to undermine regimes could use.
Contrast this with how the FBI and the Australian feds bankrolled Anomphones, which they then used to read the communications of criminals. That was kept secret until they were ready to brag about it.
My understanding is that the CIA also funds TOR, because they want to use TOR.
Only because nobody answered with this one:
IRC
Decentralized and an open protocol. Client setup to connect is not so straightforward, but it’s a one and done. Very robust.
I’m allergic to centralized communication schemes, though I do use signal to communicate with one person.
I want to research some of the other suggestions that have been brought up, so thank you for the post!
That’s new to me. Thanks!
Lmfao that’s funny, IRC is the oldest of them all.
I don’t use either, bcz I use simplex in my personal life. It is really quite great!
Do you want it to be so complicated that no one you know in real life is able to use it for more than two weeks before they make some kind of mistake or change that deletes their entire message history and identity? Matrix
Do you want a slim chance that friends and family might use it, but you have to listen to privacy nutjobs tell you your app is a CIA NSA PsyOp and you might as well cc: potus(at)whitehouse(dot)gov all your messages, it’s run by an american non-profit obviously it can’t be trusted? Signal
Beeper which runs over Matrix (with bridges) has been pretty good and straightforward.
It’s setup like a chat app rather than a slack/discord lookalike so its easier for usual folks to get used to.
Does Beeper not break Signal encryption?
Currently me and my friend are using a self-hosted server with Matrix, and Sable as a client.
Sable is the only one with Discord-like functions out of all the clients I’ve tried, all the others falling very short.
Besides that there is Fluxer, which is far more feature complete than any Matrix client. It has some key features holding it back, though, which are no Federation yet, and no E2E encryption yet. But otherwise setting up your own fully functional server is incredibly easily.
I actually prefer XMPP. It’s also less of a hassle to set up than Matrix and the protocol is much more mature. There are still issues, but it’s rather functional for audio and video calls (if you’re using a supported client).
Edit: For clients, I use Cheogram on Android and Profanity (which is a TUI) or DinoX (for calls) on Linux.
I prefer matrix for two main reasons:
- I can host my own server (and I do)
- It’s not centralized
As a bonus it has briddes for almost anything you can think of, so I use the signal bridge.
Simplex
Matrix is nice but it’s clear they’re appeasing more towards shareholders than the community, self-hosting via Docker Compose was a PIA as there are 4-5 services that need to talk to one another.
My wife and I use signal. It has more features (encryption included) than regular texting.
I’m aware of decentralized alternatives but convincing my wife to use those (with the potential extra setup) would have been to much to ask. It took me years to get her to use matrix and that’s super easy to get up and running.
This is how I explained Matrix to my mom: its like an email address, but for chat. You can chat at me, even if we aren’t using the same server, like someone can send an email from Gmail to Hotmail. She got set up and promptly went back to texting me every dang time.
Try Delta Chat, it’s even more like email but for chat (it runs off off Chatmail relays, it’s literally email but for chat).
But more importantly it’s easier to use, I’d have to set my mom up on Matrix but on DC I just sent her the invite link, she downloaded the app and made an acct (and may have had to click the link a second time to get to me but still), it was easy as hell! Then next time we were together I had her open her phone and I set her up with a few extra relays for redundancy. And she actually uses it now! It’s basically a whatsapp clone UI wise so I guess that helped, and at first she’d text me and I’d reply on DC until she started remembering DC exists.
My dad’s a bit better, all I had to say was “it’s encrypted” and he made an acct and hasn’t used SMS with me since lol.
That is where signal once shined before they removed the capability of being default sms app
That’s why the removed it actually, people think being the default SMS app means you’re actually sending encrypted messages now. Nope, it just means you’re sending regular old SMS but with thr Signal app.
That’s an extreme minority though. The only people who use Signal are privacy and security conscious people and the people who those people forced to use signal. For the second group, they couldn’t care less if it’s encrypted or not, for the first group, they will make sure what’s a Signal message and what’s a regular SMS message.
This mythical user that accidentally sends an SMS message when they meant to send a Signal message doesn’t exist.
That user might be in the slim minority but they do exist and I appreciate them taking that into account and taking seriously the security of people who aren’t super technical.
But then the only use case is if you literally take someone’s phone, switch the default SMS app to Signal, and they don’t know how to switch it back themselves. If they’re that tech illiterate, they’ll probably call you for tech support as to why text isnt working, instead of switching to Signal. And even if they then agree to do it your way, the mythical user you described is no longer mythical, it is easier to make a mistake in the Ui for someone tech illiterate. You will often see a person’s phone number in their Signal profile, after all, it’s not unthinkable.
Also, as time goes on, more people start using Signal as more people see how fascist some governments are getting and how intense social engineering is with spam calls/texts/whatnot. I know a random 60 year old bus driver who switched to Signal and made other privacy changes like turning on Safari’s relay because her accounts got hacked and she was using the same password for everything. To someone that is blind Googling something they don’t have context for, Signal is a trusted encrypted app, therefore anything I send through Signal should be trusted. I don’t think it is as impossible as you think. And again, to what benefit? There is some benefit to prevent Google possibly scanning your messages, but there are also plenty of other SMS apps which can avoid this, if it is avoidable at all.
- If you have a targeted group/peer need then whatever they are using or whatever you all decide right in the beginning - I’d suggest Matrix or some other decentralised alternative, definitely not Signal.
- Matrix had the huge opportunity to be “the messaging app” but they neither became good at corporate usage and definitely ended up sucking at personal usage. They started doing too many things, at once, and while completely ignoring the individual user.
- If you want a wider general acceptance then sadly Matrix is DoA. WhatsApp becomes a huge choice outside USA and China but it has started becoming shittier by the day and looking at who has become WhatsApp’s global head now, I don’t think it’s gonna get any better (check his last “app” or company’s screenshots and come here if you don’t end up vomiting). So Signal or maybe some other similar app. You are limited by societal trends and acceptance here, not the tech or finesse or privacy of an app.
- If you just want privacy and a simpler app, proven (at least so far), then well Signal it is, as much as I hate it for reasons they decided to make it a centralised messaging app and then stuffed crypto in it etc.
- If you have a targeted group/peer need then whatever they are using or whatever you all decide right in the beginning - I’d suggest Matrix or some other decentralised alternative, definitely not Signal.
Signal is more stable & simple to set up. So for its intended use, getting people to actually talk to me on it, it’s better.
Matrix is obviously better as a Discord replacement. It doesn’t require a phone number which is also good. Not centrally managed so easier to decouple from big tech corruption. So it is better in those ways.
I agree. Signal is easier to use and to get people switch to it since the UI/UX are vey similar to other big platforms.
Isn’t Signal a CIA honeypot?
No
